I am fascinated (and somewhat frustrated) by the various ways one can do church. I am fascinated because we are moving into an age of freedom and experimentation for the church. I am frustrated because I am not yet sure where I fit in with these various new expressions. Several years ago when I was pastor, I led my church into a seeker model. In my time of attending churches since then I have helped them in the area of becoming welcoming and working together with other churches to be a demonstration of the gospel. I have also attended an experimental, discussion-oriented church, and right now I am just trying to find the next step.
As I continue to read, Wide Open Spaces: Beyond Paint By The Number Chrisatianity by Jim Palmer, I found the chapter entitled, Here Is The Church And Here Is the Steeple… Can Church Be Everywhere, With Everybody, All Te Time? to be one of the most interesting.
When he was a pastor, he writes, his church functioned on three levels.
- A cause—expressing the love of Christ to the world in word and deed
- A community—a fellowship of people encouraging and supporting one another
- A corporation—an organization with bills to pay, budgets to balance, buildings to maintain, programs to operate, and paid personnel. p.26
He confesses that he increasingly focused on the corporate aspects because his personal identity was wrapped up in leading a “successful” church measured as by attendance, budget, and buildings. Also, he confesses to formerly believing that people needed that kind of system to be effective as a community and a cause. (pp. 26-27)
Looking back, he questions the effectiveness of his church in becoming a community because it was meeting and programmed based with limited interaction beyond the scheduled gatherings. He now regards much of what they were doing as a church as causing hindrances to developing relationships by implying that church was a place, that believers needed a hierarchy of staff to develop spiritually, by focusing on external measurements of Christian maturity, and promoting a system of giving that separated the giver from the recipient. (pp. 26-28)
Then he suggests a new way of doing church that is dependent upon on two things:
- Being consciously aware of who and what is happening around me as daily life unfolds and being intentional about being discerning
- Acting upon the opportunities everyday living, interactions, and relationships offer. (p.30)
In this new way of doing church, there are no prescribed meetings or schedules, though he adds that most Wednesday evenings he meets with some people for conversation at a Starbucks and Monday nights some friends invite their neighbors in for dinner, but it all has freedom to ebb and flow as necessary.
Day by day I’m seeing that under the radar, beneath the surface, and off the grid is a world of nobodies being the church. There is very little traction for marketing some sort of church-growth philosophy or strategy from it. It would never occur to my friends to use the word missional. We don’t have a “strategy” to reach “unbelievers,” because these people are simply our friends with whom we spend time and share our lives. Face it, there’s not a lot of novelty to having a friend or neighbor over for dinner, going biking, catching a movie or concert together, hooking up for coffee and conversation, arranging a trip to the park for your children to play together, or getting involved in some mutual interest or hobby. p. 43
It sounds wonderfully freeing, but I have some questions.
- Is it enough? I think most of us understand that we need to live with an awareness of the opportunities that God provides, but is that enough?
- Does it fulfill what we understand to be the scriptural teaching and examples of concerning church?
- What about a commitment to one another as a community and having an on-going “iron sharpening iron” type of experience?
- What about having a corporate witness as a diverse group of people who love one another and get involved in demonstrating that love to the community?
- What ideas do you have that take advantage of this kind of freedom and fresh expression that might look differently?
Oh, I would really, really like to hear from you on this!







Glenn, there is a temptation in critiquing the church, (or leaving) to simply abandon all modes of traditional church. But I think the gather (not the church service) is central to community and discipleship. The forms we give that are now in experimentation.
We’ve been able to essentially lose the Sunday service, even though it still exists. Most of the guys in my discipleship tribe consider our gathering their church. We’re now looking at secondary gathers for worship and story telling that augment larger missional elements. These components are only meant to serve the tribe.
Mission was also central to running the group and keeping it going. We needed mission to remind us of what we were doing. It focused everything.
By: jonathanbrink on January 6, 2008
at 6:40 pm
Hey Glenn,
Here’s my two cents…well…maybe not even that
Awareness isn’t enough in and of itself, although it must exist as a precursor to our depending solely upon the opportunities that God provides.
If it produces true freedom within you why does it matter if it agrees with your present understanding of church?
Iron sharpening Iron happens in all interactions if you’re paying attention.
A movement of folks doing church all the time, everywhere, with everybody would be of interest of others with respect to love, life, freedom, reconciliation, peace, joy, etc…it just wouldn’t be of interest to religions.
That last question is fantastic. Every expression of love, peace, freedom, life, acceptance, etc is unique. Enjoy yours and others.
By: Rick on January 6, 2008
at 7:27 pm
These are interesting questions! Personally I think some kind of regular get-together is neccessary for the sake of fellowship, discipleship and continually developing community. I think this, in various forms, was how the 1st century guys did things and certainly seems to be the way Jesus worked.
Personally I am over the traditional modes of meeting on Sunday mornings (often called “church”) as I think, for many of the reasons you outlined in your post, it fails to develop community, encourage deeper engagement with one another and the building of a community of ministers – active participants in the gospel.
The idea of a decentralised church is great – we are persuing that ourselves now – the idea of a completely disconnected church; I don’t think it sounds so good. In fact it kinda smells a little of individualism in a slightly different form, i.e. “I’ll just do it the way I want to do it or the way that feels good to me right now”!
By: Andrew on January 7, 2008
at 1:13 am
hey glenn, i of course love this conversation. i think the take for me is that it is enough for some people. i believe wholeheartedly that what is happening in those amazing conversations at coffee shops, bikerides, helping people move, etc. etc. IS “church” and like rick’s comment above says, more iron sharpening iron probably happens in those moments if you tune into it a little closer. i also believe there are some that like to be attached to something bigger than just an informal gathering at starbucks. there is something about some corporate worship/prayer/being together in a little larger setting that is encouraging. the refuge is a weird example of this because if we were all together under one roof at one time our network is actually much bigger than it looks but our once a week “bigger” gathering is all over the map when it comes to size, very unpredictable (and sometimes that makes the whole thing kind of tricky to pull off, too.) i don’t feel bad having a once a week gathering but we are trying to keep it as unplugged and natural and conversational and interactive and non-passive as possible. there are all kinds of different expressions of being part of the refuge–some just serve for missional kinds of things and never come to a bigger gathering, others just come to small gatherings, others come now and then to the larger gathering, some just meet witha few people one-on-one’ish, some people only read our stuff. and some others come regularly. we don’t really know what we are. we are really just a very loose faith community with all kinds of expressions. i realize i rambled on and on but i guess i am just giving a taste of what one experiment looks like. in these smaller communities we are confronted with having to actually learn grace instead of just talk about it…thanks for keeping the great thoughts rolling!
By: kathyescobar on January 7, 2008
at 1:44 am
Jesus? – Did He Really Die on the Cross? (Evidence says, NO!.)
Bible – Is It the Word of God? (Experts say, NO!.)
Trinity- Did Jesus or anyone teach this? (Bible says, NO!.)
“Only Begotten Son of God”? Was this Jesus? (Bible, says – NO!).
Are children born in original sin? (Bible says, “Yes!” – but Jesus says, “NO!”)
All this & more – internets site to compare İslam & Christianity:
http://bibleislam.com
By: DiscoverTheTruth on January 7, 2008
at 11:40 am
Jonathan ~ I too see the value of gathering.
Rick ~ I’m not so concerned with my ideas as trying to figure out how those of Jesus and the NT authors translate to today. I agree to a point with the iron sharpens iron thing, but think that it might happen best in the context of a relationship where people have fairly frequent contact. Great thoughts!
Andrew ~ Thank you for giving words to what I was feeling! I so agree!
Kathy ~ If the commute weren’t so long (Chicago to Colorado) I would be a part of what you are doing there. Sounds like a wonderful experiment!
Discover the Truth ~ You have an interesting perspective. Would you like to dialog further via email?
By: Glenn on January 7, 2008
at 12:32 pm
Glenn,
Assume the best.
Maybe we should stop trying to figure out Jesus and the NT authors ideas and follow the Christ in us. I’m not saying that isn’t helpful to a point but maybe their purpose is to launch us into a relationship with the Christ within us. Then we don’t need to figure out what Jesus and the NT writers thought. For me it’s the difference between someone telling me how to ride a bike and then getting on one, struggling for a bit with their help and then riding it myself with others doing the same.
In my experience Iron sharpening Iron can happen ‘best’ in both arrangements. The key is the desire and willingness to be sharpened.
The life of Christ doesn’t need man to govern or control it. It just doesn’t. Ask yourself; “If love governed the world, what would cease to be needed?”
Thanks for your comments back and for the post. Enjoy!
Rick
By: Rick on January 7, 2008
at 2:42 pm
Rick ~ Sounds like something Jim Palmer would write! You give me much to ponder.
By: Glenn on January 7, 2008
at 11:18 pm
Jim Palmer??
Who’s that? :p hehe
Enjoying your perspective and those of others who have commented…sharpens me
Rick
By: Rick on January 8, 2008
at 12:11 pm