Posted by: Glenn | April 7, 2008

Revolutionaries Synchroblog: Harvey

There is a list of links to all of the participants to date at the end of this post. If I missed yours, please post your link in the comment section. It’s not too late, if you would still like to participate!

Not long ago I was in a conversation with someone who asked me what my secret was to being so upbeat and positive. He went on to say that I seemed so “recovered” from my departure from the pastorate and the institutional church. He used the words upbeat and healthy.

My friend’s observation and question caused me to break out in sustained, spontaneous laughter because I don’t know of another person who has struggled as long or as hard with trying to find their place after the pastorate and after church. I went on to explain something of my personal odyssey.

My departure from the pastorate was necessitated by shutting down my church six years ago. It was to be my dream, but the dream turned into nightmare. We were a small, white, rag tag, grace oriented, seeker church in an inner city, Hispanic area. We had been through major turmoil and transition that led to many of the long term members leaving.

Then we decided to move to the burbs and do a class act church-in-the box out of rented offices and a theater. ( Remember, this was back in the day and I had a very different perspective then.) A key couple stirred up negativity causing us to be unable to continue. About twenty people continued to meet in my family room for several months, but they were not the core of a new church as I understood it at that point. We decided to shut things down and contribute all of our new equipment and proceeds from selling our building to two startup churches in the area.

I thought I would take a little time off and then get another church job. So, I got a lot major home improvement projects done and then started applying to churches and had several interviews, but nothing came together. I hated the process and found that churches were looking for a superstar to fulfill their dreams.

In six years, we have been a part of four different churches, not counting the group of young adults currently meeting in our living room on Sunday evenings. (We also took a whole year off.) I became disillusioned at each stop, feeling like there was no place for me. I finally determined that I was looking for a leadership that I could trust, someplace where I could make a meaningful contribution, and a vision that I could embrace. I didn’t find it.

I became disillusioned with the institutional church and, finally, quit looking for a church job. I have been a window cleaner, a car salesman, a painter, and mostly unemployed. After twenty years as a pastor, I didn’t know what to do with myself. I hated those other jobs and tried to no avail to get into to community service work.

Now you know why I laughed at my friend who thought I had done such a beautiful job bouncing back!

Here are some of the things that I needed to go through.

  • I needed to grieve and get angry because I had lost my job, my vocation, my dream, and my identity.
  • I needed to let the past go, along with my addiction to the institutional church. I loved the pastorate and still am a pastor at heart.
  • I needed to realize that this was not the end of the world nor the end of the line for me. I just couldn’t get out of the doldrums.
  • I needed to take stock of who I am. I had been too busy meeting the expectations of others and I found this to be a very difficult thing to do.
  • I needed to forge my own way. I needed to decide what I was going to devote the rest of my life to.
  • I needed to work it… with a lot of prayer, faith, and determination.
  • I needed a friend who understood. I found a few cool friends in the journey, but it seemed difficult to find them like they lived under the radar.

I would have loved to have had a friend walk with me who had already taken than journey and been through the tunnel, surviving to see the light at the other end. I needed someone who could understand my pain and give me a little help as I was on my way to beginning a new life.

Here is little more about my imaginay friend. Let’s call him Harvey.

  • He would understand my sense of loss. I think it would have to be someone who had been through it himself.
  • He would be available to me until I was well on my way to processing my grief.
  • He would put me in touch with a community of people who had been through a similar experience.
  • He would understand those who have lost faith in the institutional church.
  • He would be in touch with those involved with experimental churches and the resources that are available to them.
  • He would put me in touch with a community of those striving to birth fresh expressions of the church.
  • He would stay available to me as I stumbled down this new path, riddled with doubts and a few failures.
  • He would not force some preconceived package of church planting on me, but would wisely be a sounding board, asking questions, and occasionally suggesting something that would keep me out of a common pitfall.
  • He would help me brainstorm about employment ideas, if my new pursuit of God’s mission did not have a paycheck attached to it.

It has been a hell of a journey, racked with unrelenting pain and loss, filled with introspection and discovery, and blessed by amazing moments of God’s presence. I wouldn’t want to go back, but the journey could have been easier and the load I was carrying could have been lightened. That is what I want to do for others now.

Dreams are good, but reality is better.

Links to all of the participants:

Aaron Monts: Why I Stayed

Alan Knox: A Revolutionary? Who? Me?

Barb: My Response

Erin Word: Are We There Yet, Papa Smurf?

Jane: Onward Christian Soldier

Jason Ellis: Why I Ended Up A Free Charismatic Southern Bapti-Methodist Nondenominational Christian Sitting In A House Church On Sunday Mornings

Jeff Greathouse: So, You Want To Change

Jeff McQuilken: The Great Shift–and My Unwitting Part In It

Jeromy Johnson: A Safe Place To Experiment

Jim Lehmer: There Is No Spoon

Jonathan Brink: Re-Emerging Church

Kathy Escobar: Surviving Spiritual Vertigo

Rainer: A Revolutionary?


Responses

  1. [...] Glen Hagger: Harvey [...]

  2. glenn, thanks for sharing a bit of your story and such great thoughts…yep, we need more harveys!

  3. I am glad that you did this. I find myself not able to spend time reading through everyones post because it is triggering…..I just can’t seem to believe that there are so many out there, it is amazing.

    For me, it seems as if God must be doing something. The day our pastor lifted up another building project mission and announced it- my husband, my son (15 at the time) and myself were sitting in different areas of the church (because we were in leadership and serving); all three felt it impressed upon our hearts at the moment that the Lord told us we would not be moving into the new building with our group.

    It took more than a year for us to hear His voice and leave. We liked the comfort of playing church, we liked the relationships, the feelings of worship and feeling like we were “in”.

    Sometimes I believe that the Lord allowed us to endure some whacky stuff that year because He loved us enough to get us out but we didn’t want to hear.

    When our comfort zone changed, when we were the ones experiences the abuse and not “leading” in it; wow, we became ready to leave.

    anyway, thanks for posting. I look forward to spending time reading each blog post slowly, taking it all in.

    I hope you found some answers…..

    and if you haven’t yet and have time- read about our dream of Hannah’s Haven.

    I’m curious about what you believe regarding prophecy in today’s age……how we know when we hear from God……and when it is time to put down a dream.

    I’m still writing about it…..and I am not in a place any more where I NEED a pastor’s approval, I just find myself curious about how other’s see what we came out of and what it all means.

    To make it simple, we have/had a vision for our lives that we call Hannah’s Haven. I felt like I heard from God and had conformation from prophetic visitors.

    But I just don’t know anymore.

    Honestly sometimes I wonder if it is important- the finding out if God’ s will is in it….if it is good, and is work with our hands, then we should do it.

    I think I am simply just tired. Yeah, that is how I feel, tired.

    thanks again for the opportunity to be part of this and meet so many others….

  4. Jane ~

    My heart goes out to you after all you have been through. I think God speaks to our heart, though often we let difficulties, other’s reactions, and the daily grind of life quench that great work. I would not be in any way dependent upon the approval or prophecies of others and I would not take difficulties as some sort of message. As simple as it sounds, I favor doing what you understand it is that God wants you to do, realizing he usually allows for some twists and turns. By the way, it is a beautiful vision. ~ Grace & Peace

  5. Glen-

    I came back to re read your posting. Harvey sounds much like what everyone is looking for, don’t you think?

    I wonder why if so many of us are out here, WHY we haven’t found each other…. Why are so many of us feeling alone while needing each other?

    incidentaly- we were trained at our church to be church planters. They actually had 5 couples in leadership form a homegroup where we were trained to build the church plants. Our pastor intended to send us out with each of his plants (a pastor that he would train) and we would build a church- after 3 years or so- return to go out with the next plant.

    well, there never was a pastor ready enough for him to send out- but we were trained to duplicate each ministry in this church as we had designed it.

    like you stated- we were trained to “force a preconcieved package” on others.

    Thank God that the only church our SKILLS were gifted upon was our own; numbers never really hitting 1,000 members.

  6. Thanks, Glenn, for sharing your story, and for helping provide a platform for similar stories and connection. It already looks like there are some good discussions emerging.
    Jeff

  7. I’m a little late to the party, but interestingly enough – my most recent post was my story of coming out of church-as-we-know-it. So, I kind of unwittingly participated in the synchroblog! I look forward to reading others’ posts!

  8. Jane- I think we need to find ways to get together and mix it up with a few “Harveys”.

    Jeff- Weird story, huh?

    Sarah- I will link to your post. Thanks for jumping in!

  9. glenn- i learned some things i didn’t know about you. i love that you were able to laugh! great post.

  10. Glenn,

    It sounds like you are looking for a mentor to disciple you to follow Christ instead of following some preconceived model or method… someone who is willing to allow Christ to be Lord but who nonetheless helps others follow him… someone who will to give people opportunity to fail and to offer God’s grace in response. I would like to find someone like that as well. I have found many people who want to teach me how to do things their way… or follow their plan… or bring about their vision… which is great for them. I’m looking for someone who will continually point me toward Jesus, even when it means going in a direction that is different than the mentor.

    -Alan

  11. Cindy- Thanks, Cindy. By God’s grace, I am starting to feel this new thing called, peace.

    Alan- That is good point. There are a lot of salesmen with their plan and package, but there are not many people who will get to know us well enough to team up with us and the holy spirit to help facilitate the work that God is doing in our lives. The great longing is for a friend who has “been there” whose love for God and me is settled, who can really listen and really speak truth to me. May we be such men.

  12. As one who is becoming disillusioned with organized religion, I felt very connected to your post Glenn Hopefully, soon, I will actually start writing (venting) about it.

  13. Just found this synchroblog – a day late… Typical for me!

    The title struck a chord with me. Why? Although I have never thought of myself as a revolutionary, never wanted to be one, a local pastor and a few friends said that I was one. Is that good or bad? I don’t really know. All I know is that I have a lot more questions than answers.

    Anyway – posted a few of my rambling thoughts (very specific to my current situation) on my blog. Your thoughts – and prayers – would be greatly appreciated!

  14. Glenn – You know, as difficult as this journey was/is for someone like me, reading about how if affects someone who was in ministry as a profession is really humbling for me. Because while I lost a great deal, you lost more. We didn’t lose our employment over it. That has got to really stink.

    Your thoughts about connecting with those who have gone before us is so important. If I hadn’t found people who had “been there”, I would have ended up a bigger mess.

  15. Mike ~ Maybe I can help a little, by doing that thing that I wrote about… being a friend.

    Rainer ~ Upon reading your post, I am amazed at how your issues with the church in the Ukraine parallel ours here in the U.S. I know the struggle.

    Please read read Rainer’s post and remember him in your prayers.

    Erin ~ Coming to the awareness, that as a professional, I was playing a game that I didn’t want to play anymore was like having the bottom drop out of my life. Yet, with God’s grace, I am recovering and so can others who have been through this. That is part of what I want my life to be about. As we went through our crises which started a few years ago, there weren’t many people who had been through it. Of course, that is changing, which presents some new opportunities.

  16. Glenn – It really isn’t all that surprising, unfortunately, when we consider that much of the growth in the churches here in the past 15 years has been patterned after North American models, and encouraged by North American missionaries and organizations (both Canadian and American).

    As one person here told me when I started commenting that we shouldn’t define the success of a church by the number of people… His comment? “Really? That’s what we were taught by the North American missionaries!”

    Ouch.

  17. Rainer ~ Ouch is right. I’m not sure if that is imperialism, bad church DNA, or was just doing what we knew to do back then.

  18. Great post and thanks for putting it together, I always enjoy them.

    *cynical voice* Even though you left me out :) The two Jeff’s must have thrown you. Actually, all the other writers are so far above me, keep me hidden !!!

  19. Jeff ~ I am so easily confused. I was afraid I would do that to somebody. My apologies. I think I will have to steal that song! :)


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