First of all, I sort of apologize for the title, but my personal flash drive flickered and out came those words.
These thoughts are based on my reading about the Reveal study and this new interview with Bill Hybels, all posted in this Out Of Ur article.
I have had a long love for Willow. When I first attended a conference there about fifteen years ago, a light went on and their approach made total sense to me. As I talked with staff and volunteers, I found the criticisms that I had heard of Willow to be entirely ungrounded . Eventually, I transitioned the church I pastored to our particular spin of the Willow/Seeker-targeted model.
Today, I feel differently about things. Here are a few of my random thoughts, though; I admit they are just thoughts or feelings. I haven’t been to Willow in the last few years.
- The kids that started Willow are now AARP members. Like people, churches age. I doubt very much that it is the same daring, crazy place it was in the early days and in some ways that’s good, in other ways, it’s bad. It’s a huge ship that takes lots of room (time) to make course adjustments. As organizations age, people start thinking about security and sustaining the organization.
- Right or wrong, it sounds like Willow is still very much dedicated to the attractional model. It seems like a pretty iffy basket to put so many eggs in it.
- All of the corporate terminology turned me off. Maybe, they need a strategic plan initiative to move from a business model to a relational model.
- Bill Hybels is using exactly the same terminology as he was fifteen years ago.
- The idea of providing heavy Bible classes and theology and wanting to turn people into self feeders doesn’t strike me as new, effective or the way of Jesus.
Yet, I have learned not to underestimate Willow. It just seems to me that they may be falling behind or maybe they are continuing on a logical path and it is I who have changed.
Grace has good thoughts on this too!
Checkout the article and short video and let me know what you think?
“Maybe, they need a strategic plan initiative to move from a business model to a relational model.”
Which cheek was your tongue buried in when you wrote this!
I have been to Willow several times and always felt like a wallflower. Their desire NOT to make people feel uncomfortable by NOT acknowledging their presence left me feeling quite hollow and lost, kinda like going to the mall and never making eye contact.
I’ll check out the video and get back . . .
By: tysdaddy on June 11, 2008
at 6:23 am
I have a good contact with a person who was on staff there for several years and Hybels is now back in charge completely after several years of moving away from much leading there. A whole slew of top pastors were let go or left by I am sure was some coaxing.
Willow and Saddleback are the emblem of church in a box to make a profit to me. I know they do a lot of good things too, I guess thats the real problem with being too harsh on them as I know many many people who are affected by a lot of their outreach programs.
I cant help to think a few years ago when they forced the “young adult” service Axis to close its ministry thats when things really started to change there. Dan Kimball blogged about this and was quite critical of Willow in doing so, thus I am amazed he has been allowed back there to speak several times in various conferences.
On the other hand I can be critical of any church whose operating budget is more than some entire country’s GDP. And again, how many flat panels and brick roads, and fountains, etc, etc do you need? And they themselves have become their own denomination in that they always tell others to join a WCA partner church. And of course charge up the yin yang to be listed as a WCA church affiliate.
Recently I heard something about the usual cop out with Willow in that “the rich need Jesus too” – I wish I could find the article or audio because it was very well put.
Lastly, Jesus spent most of his time with the poor and downcast. The sr pastor at Mars Hill, Don Golden, had a great comment at the Isnt She Beautiful conference to those who claim to live in rich suburb areas and how to they work with the poor directly? He said quite frankly if you cant invite the poor into your everyday lives, maybe its time to move. I was shocked at that comment, but agreed to it as well.
While I think a lot of churches like this and other mega churches may do a lot of good, I wonder if the harm they do isnt worse. I cant help but think over and over, how Dan Kimball puts it in his book title, they like Jesus and not the church.
By: Jason on June 11, 2008
at 2:40 pm
tsdaddy ~ I did have fun with that sentence. I agree. Church has to be more than watching a show.
Jason ~ There have made lots of decisions that I didn’t like or understand, like… the regional Willow replicas and axing axis. I was amazed to hear of the senior staff members that exited. (I would comment more, but I need to get busy with a vocational learning intensive.)
By: Glenn on June 11, 2008
at 7:51 pm
Hi Glenn!
I have been away on work – I go away every second week and have lots of catching up to do on the blogs I enjoy!
I trust the new job is going well? Oh and congratulations on your anniversary – something really worth bragging about matey! Thank You Father for Your work in Glenn and Patty’s heart’s and lives that enables them to boast of such a fantastic gift of grace!
We have our own mega churches here that cause endless problems so I am not going to even try comment on yours.
However, they also have an impact on us here because a lot of people here tend to follow whatever comes out of the USA and they follow it without checking out the scriptural correctness of what is taught.
An immediate problem is that of Warrens “Purpose driven life” – so many are following it and do absolutely nothng about the wrong things that are taught, the scriptures that are quoted from perverse translations to support his theory’s etc. etc.
They cover it all up with “eat the meat and spit out the bones” however, they never point out the bones and how they expect young believers to know what is bone and what is meat is beyond me.
It is a challenge to not be critical and I do admit that I often fail in this. My prayer is that whatever God is doing thru these people He will achieve His plans and purposes in reaching the lost!
Lots of love!
Pops
By: Pops on June 14, 2008
at 1:47 pm
Pops ~ Thanks for acknowledging the big events in our lives! It’s too bad that church leaders spend much time trying to replicate what they read about in prepackaged church success products, rather than seek God for what their own community needs and simply organize their selves around a love and commitment to God and each other.
By: Glenn on June 14, 2008
at 9:11 pm